There are certain times in ones life when you come to have what I like to call a eureka moment. A short but very powerful moment in which you come to the realization of something you have been studying or trying to discover. It's one of those moments that takes your breath away, puts a smile on your face, gets your heart racing, and your blood pumping. I have had several of these moments in my lifetime both as an atheist and as a believer.
One of those moments came when I was reading the bible and thought that I had finally solved the mystery of the so called trinity and the tripartite nature of God. I was so excited and had thought then and there that the Lord had imparted that knowledge to me in that very moment. I came to believe that God was actually three different beings and when the bible stated that they were one that they were only one in plan and purpose. At that moment I guess you could have called me a polytheist but for some reason it completely made sense to me. In the creation story it said several times that God would use the words us, we, whenever he said something. So I asked myself who is God referring to in those statements?
As an atheist one of my eureka moments came to me when I came to the realization that we are literally made up of star stuff. I was watching a program on the discovery channel and when the narrator said that I remember I almost jumped for joy when I heard it. It might seem trivial to some but it was a big deal to me. I have never seen ourselves as a species as being so unique and special, I see us as just another life form inhabiting this wonderful planet we call Earth. If it weren't for the ability of plants to convert carbon dioxide into oxygen then we wouldn't be here.
It is fascinating to know that all life on this planet relies on some other life form for its continued existence. I find that very fact to be mind blowing! Carnivores and herbivores all sharing life on this planet and depending on one another for their continued survival. In the fictional garden of Eden we were strictly fruit eaters but this is just one more instance where the bible is wrong. We need certain vitamins and minerals and a lot of nutrients to sustain this body of ours in good working condition and health. Fruits just don't have everything we need.
Today I live for these eureka moments and find that discovery of any knowledge and the feeling you get with it is worth the journey. Religion just doesn't do it for me anymore, there is nothing like science. That's why God did it is to me not an answer to all the worlds unanswerable questions. I get a certain high when I learn something new, that is why I only read academic books for pleasure. I don't read fiction anymore and haven't done so since high school. I read about evolution, general biology, astronomy, comparative religion, etc. I watch movies but I love watching documentaries about science and discovering things about the world we live in and about ourselves as a species.
This is why faith is just not an option for me and it never will be. I refuse to believe that "God did it" is the answer to everything. It takes away from the journey of discovery and learning which I think is vital to each and every one of us who loves to exercise their minds. I know how religions work and how they influence the lives of their adherents first hand. It is because of this reason that religion has lost its luster with me. It's like seeing an amazing magic trick for the first time and then later finding out exactly how the illusion was created. When you see that trick done again with the knowledge of how it's done then it just doesn't have the same effect on you as it did the first time you saw it.
Religion isn't even a challenge for my mind anymore. I like writing about it and debunking it but I could never be a believer again with all of the knowledge I have gained about religion throughout the years. Religion is demeaning and oppressive to me these days, and I feel a certain repulsion for it since I managed to break free of its grasp. In closing I would just like to say that as long as there are things to discover and learn from this life, I will continue my journey. Who knows, maybe two thousand years from now people would look back and laugh at our silly religions and beliefs.
Actually, if you are going by the Bible,it didn't specifically say they couldn't eat the animals. We just had dominion over them.
ReplyDeleteNot even going to get into that with you but you are wrong about that.
DeleteI am a newly formed atheist. But now what I wonder is, can I do anything just as long as it gives me pleasure, even killing someone?
ReplyDeleteYou're an ass..did you become an atheist just to give us a bad name? I can only speak for myself but I believe most of us became one after much study and introspection. You sound like you have no morals and we all know that doesn't come from god or religion.
DeleteAre you being sarcastic? Or are you making the argument that since you are now an atheist you can do what you want? If you are then you are sadly mistaken. Aside from our conscience and moral make up there are also laws of the state or country which you will have to answer to. So no; just because you become an atheist does not mean that you can run amok and do as you please.
DeleteIt is as if when one is a theist, one cannot kill, only because of the fear of the "wrath of god". (Oh, with the exceptions when god commands it, as supposedly occured over and over again in the Old Testament.) If that is what one believes as a theist, that morals ONLY come from god, then I would offer that one is morally bankrupt. Atheists (at least this one) consider morality to be independent of a mythical being (god). Morally, to kill is wrong. And it doesn't take a belief in a god (who sometimes commands his minions to kill) to accept that morality.
Delete"Atheists (at least this one) consider morality to be independent of a mythical being (god)."
DeleteI completely agree with you on this matter, thanks for your comment.
But where does this morality come from, why does the country and state have the right over me, to tell me what to do. And what are morals; the distinction of right and wrong. But then who has the right to tell me what is right and wrong. Someone either has to force me or it has to established. So what is morally right for you is only subjectively right, and may for me be subjectively wrong to do and vice versa.
Delete"But where does this morality come from, why does the country and state have the right over me, to tell me what to do."
ReplyDeleteI can tell you that it does not come from God! Morality is in my view of human origin and is part of our own survival instincts. This about it this way. Imagine a race of people that had no laws and no bars to people committing atrocities against one another. This would be a society where literally only the strong would survive. But it would be a society that would not be prone to long term survival because they were all too busy killing each other.
Laws and morality go hand in hand and they are the foundation of any society that seeks to propagate their race. There were some ancient cultures where cannibalism was perfectly normal. Other warrior cultures ate their enemies hearts to obtain their spirit or valor etc. But quite honestly it doesn't take a genius to see that if there was no kind of social order then no one would be around to talk about these matters.
As an atheist I don't fear God or hell since I am convinced that neither of them exist. But I don't act crazy or immoral because it is detrimental not just to myself but to my society as a whole. Once the norms of society are established then you need someone to enforce them. That is where the state and the law come into play. Thanks for your question and I hope this helps clear things up a bit for you.
But if no morals are previously established, then it is up the one personal their subjective moralities to decide, in the moment what is morally right and wrong. And this will be whatever is most pleasing at the moment and may change a few seconds later, according to them whatever is most pleasing. I think this is terrible, and I have just convinced myself, that God does exist, and He is the person who needs to help along the path to form objective truths and moralities.
DeleteI think this is a good discussion, however, one should consider that throughout history, there have been a wide variety of religions. Each with various concepts of god (or multiple gods). Each with links back to some moral code. Did the moral code for those people get handed down independently to each group via the particular god, godess, gods or godesses? I think that to each particular group, they indeed believed it to be true. Yet although there are some similarities in their moral codes, there were also differences. Assuming that each religious group denied the existance of the god that another group worshiped (a big assumption, but probably true for most religious situations), then what follows is that the supposed "directional morality from god" came from something other than a god. It seems to me that if one says that morality only comes from a god, then one would have to deny the existance of moral codes in any society that didn't share your religion. This is getting a little complicated ... time to watch some TV and chill out. Thanks for the opportunity to chat.
DeleteAnonymous said:"I have just convinced myself, that God does exist, and He is the person who needs to help along the path to form objective truths and moralities."
ReplyDeleteGive yourself a round of applause and then go back and read the Old Testament to show me just how moral your God is. As a matter of fact I'm not interested. Next time if you want to waste my time with stupid questions, do me a favor and keep them to yourself.
Chatpilot, I'm going to have to change my ID from anonymous to avoid getting confused with the anonymous religious fanatics. I'm enjoying these exchanges, but will need to put a name to the posts. By the way, I like what you wrote a few moments ago to the "other anonymous".
DeleteI don't mean to come off angry but it is frustrating when someone comes in here with their mind already made up about an issue. And then start wasting my time by trying to pretend that they are seeking advice in order to try to sway me into believing and accepting their view.
ReplyDeleteI don't moderate comments because I feel that people have a right to post their views and opinions freely. But when they start abusing my willingness to engage in discussion about certain matters I find it annoying.
I am very outspoken about my views and open to hearing others. But keep in mind that there is not much that you can throw at me that I haven't already considered. I did not just wake up one morning and declare myself an atheist. It took years of personal research and self reflection to get me to where I am now.
In reply to other anonymous, the past religions were all form of seeking the truth. As are all religions today. But by saying that God does not exist, inferring this is the one true God of Abraham, you are saying that about 4 billion, yes billion people are mistaken in their beliefs. Also, there are 149,000 new people begging to believe in this one true God. On the contrary, there are, oh say about 300 less atheists every day, decreasing the population of 143,000 or so non-believers. If you are right, where is everybody going? Do you claim to be above all us who believe, or are you just right and the rest of us are genetically programmed to become believers. So suppress us, or persecute us force us to see the light! Just like the Romans did to the Catholic Church in the first 3 centuries, but what happened, it made it through now didn't it. And it's even bigger than before, and growing. And the greatest threat to Christ and His body, was converted, the pagans destroyed, until Christians and Muslims, both believers of the God of Abraham, controlled most of the known world. And they continue to today, where the truth will be put forth, and there will be many forms of trying to duplicate this truth. Oh it may seem like you may be winning for a while, you can’t win in the end, no matter how hard you try. But the real truth will reign, and it’s only a matter of time before the truth will be accepted by all. Why don’t you come back, receiving love and mercy? God can forgive all; you just need to ask for it. Besides, even if there is no God, not that I say there isn’t, are Christian morals at all bad? But if God does exist, and you truly believe, then there is no question. But even if you struggle with faith, but push through, God will accept that as true faith, and that is assurance that in the end, I will reach Heaven, just as you could.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing that you have said that is actually factual in that long post is that "all past religions were all a form of seeking truth." The argument you attempted to make from numbers about how many believe as opposed to how many don't is outright irrelevant.
DeleteThe only reason the church is still around today is because the emperor Constantine converted and eventually made it the official religion of Rome. Christians love to yack about how they were martyred and persecuted, but you forgot to tell my readers what was the first thing the church did as soon as they got the upper hand. With the backing of the Roman army they began to do away by force with all other religions that opposed theirs. Or as you like to call them heresies.
They converted people by force and those that refused were tortured and put to death. Sounds like martyrdom to me but I guess since they were not dying for Christ it doesn't count right? Then the loving church got into a political and turf war with its biggest nemesis Islam. They fought for the holy land at first and in the name of God killed possibly millions over a span of several years. That was called the Crusades, and later we get to hear about the wonderful Inquisitions that the church carried out all over Europe and other parts of the world. The inquisitions included torturing, burning, and hanging those accused of a number of heresies or blasphemies against the church and their doctrines. Not only did they kill these people they plundered and took all that they owned.
Oh, and let's not forget that even here in the U.S. in Salem Massachusetts we had a little taste of that during their with hunts where they hung innocent people branding them witches.
Finally, the only reason that the church is still here is because it is now rooted in a lot of our cultures traditions. It has nothing to do with the veracity of the bible or your nonexistent God. In fact I would be ashamed to be a Christian specifically because of your dictator God and his insane followers of the past and present who established their church in a literal sea of blood!
Ahh, but that is not happening today, no forced religion by the Church, but it is still around. "To tell your readers," the Church has almost no political power today. It has remained neutral in many, if not all of the recent wars. To say that any persecution by a Christian leader, is then what Chrsitians are all about, then the same would be for you. You and your leaders brought judgment on yourselves! And again, by the way, if you are right, where is everybody going! Huh! And don't say that your leaders didn't kill people. Stalin: 20 million or so. Mao: 49-78,000,000. These don't even come close to the about 264,000 people killed by Christians.
Delete"264,000 people killed by Christians"
DeleteWhere the hell are you getting these numbers from? First of all that was not the point of my reply. The point was that Christianity was founded by military might and the deaths of millions of innocent people throughout its history. Contrary to your beliefs Christianity does hold some political sway even here in the U.S. Because of your large numbers politicians have to claim some sort of belief in God or they might not get voted into office regardless of their qualifications.
The only difference between then and now is that Christians can't go about trying people for heresy, or sentencing people to prison or death for not believing as they do. You yourself demonstrate often just how ignorant and intolerant your religion is.
Regarding your where is everybody going comment atheism is growing here in the U.S. so I don't really know what your deluded mind is telling you. The difference between all those communists murderers you mentioned and ancient Christianity is that none of them were telling people they loved them then killing them for not believing as they did. And none of them were saying that they were doing what they did in the name of a God.
So to summarize I wasn't making an argument from violence but rather stating the fact that Christianity was not established by God but by men at the edge of a sword. Do me a favor and go read a real book on church history clown!!