One of the many things I find most appalling about Christians is that they go out of their way to justify the cruelty of their deity. I have had several theists try to refute my claims that the biblical god is a tyrant by stating that he is our creator and thus he can do with us what he pleases. In my mind this goes to show just how warped the indoctrinated mind really is, they apparently cannot think rationally nor independently.
Let's see what the "holy" writ otherwise known as the bible has to say about the matter. 20. But you -- who do you think you, a human being, are, to answer back to God? Something that was made, can it say to its maker: why did you make me this shape?21. A potter surely has the right over his clay to make out of the same lump either a pot for special use or one for ordinary use.22. But suppose that God, although all the time he wanted to reveal his retribution and demonstrate his power, has with great patience gone on putting up with those who are the instruments of his retribution and designed to be destroyed; Romans 9:20-22 NJB
As you can see as is demonstrated throughout the scriptures the lord puts his "creation" in their place with the dictatorial tone that is common with him. The next verse goes into how lucky we are that he is merciful and doesn't destroy us outright. In Deuteronomy 32:39 the good lord is more direct: 39. See now that I, I am he, and beside me there is no other god. It is I who deal death and life; when I have struck, it is I who heal (no one can rescue anyone from me). And finally in the book of Luke 10:28 we are lovingly reminded:'Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; fear him rather who can destroy both body and soul in hell.'
After reading just those few out of the many threats this good and merciful lord makes upon mankind I can't help but feel like he is a mob boss and we are his cronies. Basically, his entire philosophy is do as I say and I will spare your life and reward you in the afterlife. If that is not a tyrant my dear Christian believers than I don't know what is. Saying that the fact that he does not strike us dead makes him merciful and kind is like saying that the lion will not eat you because he has already been fed.
There is no real moral or ethical justification for the cruelty of this fictional deity, nor any reason to believe he or in this case it exists since there is not a Christian alive who has seen him nor can define him. Stop making excuses and acknowledge once and for all that your religion by its own admission is based on fear. That your god is an animal and makes any earthly tyrant pale in comparison to the murders and the cruelties that he has committed by his own admission in your so called inspired word.
I am speaking as if he existed from your scriptures, but I personally do not believe there is a god. In my estimation your god is just like all the other gods before him; a fictional creation of mankind.
The question of why "evil" (or suffering) exists is "because God wants it to exist." My question to believers who think evil is part of free will, or wanting to rely more on God, is why does GOD'S EVIL exist? Why is he such a bastard? And how can they call him a "loving" father? Any human father who behaved the way he does would be charged with child abuse.
ReplyDeleteWell said LadyAtheist, my sentiments exactly. Their crazy idea of loving is that he allows us to live in sin and affords us during our lifetime a chance to repent. All of this before he kills us and casts our souls into hell. What morons these Christians are.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention the total insanity of punishing your only good child and giving the brats a lifetime pass to Disneyland. How is that "loving" or "just?"
ReplyDeleteYou err by assigning human attributes to the Almighty.
ReplyDeleteIt is not such a difficult task to understand the concept of free will. If we have no opportunity to choose evil, then what can free will possibly mean? If we have no choice but to love, than both the concept of choice and the concept of love have no meaning.
It is true that God knew what He was doing when He decided to create us, but He decided it was worth it.
Before you dismiss me as another "Christian moron", understand that my beliefs, while based on faith, are nonetheless rooted in logic.
For example: The universe exists. Things don't exist from nothing, and things don't create themselves, therefore ...
The crazy idea isn't mine. I can't hardly believe it myself. The idea is His. And He doesn't allow us to live in sin, in fact He gave more than you or I can ever imagine to reconcile us to Himself. Why or how? Too hard of a question for me to answer, but repenting, turning back towards God himself, is somehow part of the process. Give it a try, He just may surprise you.
If God exists, how can you ignore how cruel he(?) is?
Delete@ BDK55 You said:"The universe exists. Things don't exist from nothing, and things don't create themselves, therefore ..."
ReplyDeleteContrary to what you may have been led to believe there is nothing logical about your assumptions. Filling in the blanks of our knowledge with God did it (god of the gaps theory) just raises more questions regarding this god and the origins of his existence.
If nothing can create itself or exist from nothing then this same rule must apply to God. Otherwise to blatantly state that it doesn't is nothing more than question begging.
Begging the Question is a fallacy in which the premises include the claim that the conclusion is true or (directly or indirectly) assume that the conclusion is true. http://nizkor.org/features/fallacies/begging-the-question.html
The way you stated your argument is a perfect example of begging the question in that you automatically assume that the conclusion that God exists is true.
God created the universe, and because He created it, He exists apart from it. The rules that apply to the creation do not of necessity apply to the creator.
ReplyDeleteI will freely admit that I am operating from a assumption of belief. And you must likewise admit that you are operating from an assumption of disbelief. The difference is that while I think you are wrong, I never called you a "moron".
You justify your faith in atheism, I justify mine in God. Someday we will know whose faith was justified... Oh, I guess you won't!
The difference is that while I think you are wrong, I never called you a "moron".
ReplyDeleteI just reread my post and I don't see where I called you a moron so I don't know where you are getting that from. "The rules that apply to the creation do not of necessity apply to the creator". More question begging I see.
So the creator just always has existed? That makes absolutely no sense at all and utterly requires a stretch of the imagination to believe and accept as truth.
I find that a more naturalistic explanation for the origins of man in this case are far more plausible. Our bodies operate through electrical pulses and chemical reactions.What was the original source of this energy? No one knows, but as I stated before the god did it argument just doesn't work.
"I am a former Pentecostal evangelist"....well say no more! But other than, where are they that UNDERSTAND the gospel of the kingdom and those things which concern Jesus name!
ReplyDeleteIn reply to your question Anonymous They are all in your imaginary heaven if they believe or in your imaginary hell for not submitting their lives and will to your dictator in the sky.
ReplyDeleteI'm a Christian now, but I'm losing my faith over this issue. God is an asshole! Why is that not a problem for anyone but me?
ReplyDeleteI'm a Christian now, but I'm really losing my faith over this "God is an asshole" issue. Jesus came to save us, yay! From who? God. Bite me.
ReplyDeleteBy normal standards the God of the bible would be considered a tyrant and a murderer.
ReplyDeleteDonna, thank you very much for your comment and for reading my blog. The first thing I would like to get out of the way is that OBE (out of body experiences) or NDE's (near death experiences) are first and foremost subjective experiences that are not unique to Christianity. Other world religions claim similar experiences except that the details are in agreement with their beliefs of gods and the after life. None of these experiences can be taken as evidence of the existence of heaven, hell, or God. If you are interested you can read a good article about this matter here: http://www.skepdic.com/nde.html
DeleteThe second thing you brought up was about the virtues of belief versus the consequences of nonbelief if it turns out that believing in God was true.This is what is known as Pascals wager and you can read a good refutation on it here: http://infidels.org/library/modern/theodore_drange/wager.html
Contrary to what many theists claim there is a lot more to faith than simply believing in God. It takes more than simple belief to win a place in heaven. There are many sacrifices with lifestyle that must be made and a huge expenditure of time, money, and effort on the part of the believer must be adhered to. Once again thanks for your comment and give those articles I have recommended a read.
Interesting thoughts... and I am glad you are willing to call it what it is. I think Evangelical fundamentalists are afraid to deal with questions of whether God is a bully. They really try to change the conversation by saying we were created for God, therefore God can do what he wants. The problem is, that if God is there and if He did command death and wrath upon those who don't meet his expectations, than he doesn't live up to his own standards. He commands us not to murder, but then murders (and commands the Israelites to murder). Jesus says love your enemies, but then turns around and condemns his to eternity in hell. I would argue that Jesus is God's full revelation of himself. If you want to know how God treats his enemies look at Jesus. If you want to know how God treats those who sin, look at Jesus. John says Jesus is God's word (God's revelation). Paul says Jesus is the image of the invisible God. Hebrews says Jesus is the exact representation of God. Therefore, God ALWAYS looks like Jesus. And from there, we have to find a new way to understand Scripture. I know this is an atheist post, but I wanted to speak up for the Christian point of view, because I think it's been skewed by fundamentalist Christians - and isn't truly the historical view of the church.
ReplyDeletehttp://godsfoolishness.blogspot.com/2015/10/evangelicalism-questioners-and-seeking.html
Joe Olachea it's interesting how you see God in Jesus. I see in the N.T. a different deity than the one presented in the O.T. The ancient Hebrew deity is a god of war and is determined to have mankind to live and obey his every command. He demands worship and love and threatens with violence and death those who disobey him under the law.
ReplyDeleteJesus on the other hand serves as a mediator between allegedly the same psycho god represented in the O.T. yet he is much more docile and loving. But even Christ has his moments of being an asshole in the N.T. and rarely you see a flash of the O.T. deity in him. Either way if it is the same god he is either schizophrenic or has come serious anger management issues. I personally find worship appalling and would prefer death than to bow down to tyranny.